Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:42 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Same rules apply to all forums at the Luthiers Forum.




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:11 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:36 pm
Posts: 20
First name: Ben
Last Name: Perrine
City: Noblesville
State: Indiana
Zip/Postal Code: 46060
Country: United States of America
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
I have some cherry left over from a bass I made and noticed that there's just enough wood for a soprano sized Uke to be made out of it. Problem is the the grain of the wood. Since the instrument is so small and there's (comparably) little tension, is the structural integrity compromised by going against the grain? Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:50 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:04 am
Posts: 773
First name: Peter
Last Name: Fenske
City: Leeds
State: Yorkshire
Country: Uk
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It's not so much the structural integrity that's the problem (although that could be a problem too), but to make the top stiff enough, you'd have to make it way thicker than normal which would be very bad for the sound. Wood is far stiffer along the grain than across the grain.
It may just about be usable for the back.

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:55 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3592
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Humidity expansion could be an issue as well. The back lengthening and shortening with humidity changes could affect the neck angle. But I'd say it would probably be ok for a back if you put two or 3 braces going from head to tail rather than the usual side to side style.

I'm sure it would be possible to make it survive as a top as well, but it probably wouldn't sound as good as the usual alignment. Could be an interesting experiment though... sort of like the opposite of ladder bracing :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:32 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1170
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Totally spitballing, but maybe you could brace it with two "parallel" (actually divergent but longitudinal) braces from neck to tail block in the style of an archtop guitar? You would have to use f-holes, or at least some non standard sound hole. Come to think of it, I guess I'm describing a mandolin. Oh well... might work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:11 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
rlrhett wrote:
Totally spitballing, but maybe you could brace it with two "parallel" (actually divergent but longitudinal) braces from neck to tail block in the style of an archtop guitar? You would have to use f-holes, or at least some non standard sound hole. Come to think of it, I guess I'm describing a mandolin. Oh well... might work.



Cut it out and make the back with the necessary bracing and set it aside for a while , lets see what happens . You have asked a question that needs a bit of experimentation . What do you have to lose ?? idunno

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:07 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 3293
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I'm not sure the stiffness across the grain (or lack there of) is as much of a concern as you might guess. Softwoods have a much bigger difference in stiffness (across the grain compared to along the grain) than hardwoods do. Further, we are talking about a very short body. I would say try it out as an experiment and see what happens. Alter the bracing using your best judgement and educated guesses and see what happens.

The real question is, what are your expectations for this instrument? If you want a nice uke and don't want to assume the risk that it will be a bust, then you can certainly find a suitable plate in soprano uke size elsewhere. If you are looking for a fun way to use up this scrap and maybe learn something along the way, go for it.

I designed my first couple instruments as much around the wood I had as I did around what I wanted it to be. That was fun. Once I designed an instrument where the primary design factor was the resaw capacity of my little bench top bandsaw. Everything was designed around that maximum body width. Though I am glad I have a bigger saw now and have built up a tonewood stash. . .

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:31 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:41 am
Posts: 150
First name: Matt
Last Name: Cushman
City: Great Falls
State: MT
Zip/Postal Code: 59401
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I can't see all of your stock in the photo but it looks like you have enough to try a two piece back with the proper grain direction. It wont be book matched but it should look OK. That board looks like a beaver has been chewing on it! :D

_________________
http://www.cushmanguitars.com/.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:22 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm
Posts: 279
First name: Chris
Last Name: Reed
City: Stowmarket
State: Suffolk
Zip/Postal Code: IP14 2EX
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It all depends what you want from your uke. There are two approaches:

1. Make it like a guitar with a softwood top. In this case you can use stiff back and sides, and that wood will be fine for a back with 2 x 4 longitudinal bracing (shaved down a little perhaps). I really don't like this style for sopranos (well, not at all really, for any size - if you want a guitar make a guitar ...), because they almost always sound shrill and "scratchy". But some love 'em.

2. Make it more traditionally from all hardwood. In this case you really have to build light as you can, otherwise you will produce a near-silent uke. But if you get it right, they sound really good. My aiming point for a soprano is 240-300 grams (8.5 to 10.5 ounces, including strings and hardware). I couldn't use that wood because it wouldn't be stiff enough along the long axis, even if you left it too thick to make much of a sound. The big split into the upper bout won't help either.

Cherry can make very fine soprano ukes, but not that piece for my taste. I'd buy some more cherry and use that piece for headplates.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:55 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:34 pm
Posts: 552
City: winnipeg
State: manitoba
Country: canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
If you build with cross-grain top, consider "A" bracing or falcate bracing. That will improve the longitudinal strength significantly. The string tension on a uke (tenor) is only around forty pounds so if your linings are sound you should be OK.

Bob :ugeek:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:15 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: Missouri
First name: Patrick
Last Name: Hanna
State: Missouri
Country: USA
Bryan Bear has it. You probably don't want to hear his answer, but listen to it anyway. You can buy a proper uke top way cheap. Do that. In the long run, you won't be sorry.

...or...pursue your path with orienting the grain of your current "top" in the wrong axis. Report back to us. I think you will be disappointed but I am often wrong. Just report back to us honestly, either way.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com